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Witness Statement

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Witness Statement

Postby Derrian » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:42 pm

I was set up. After I appologised, several people literally jumped down my throat and implied ugly things about me. Then my arrest record was brought up and a bribe was offered to have me go home to minnesota. The General Assembly last night was a haven for personal attacks, set up for a public humiliation, rather than an attempt at unification. Isolationist and exclusionary was on the menu, and a lot of people were there and ready to speak- to join in on the lynching. I feel hurt, this was painful and humiliating. This still is not even the most depressing thing. The reasons why as I see them- the new term being bandied about (just as of last night) is anti-permiter. In other words lets make groups of the occupy movement and isolate them, and reject them. I identify with one thing when I am Occupying- and that is OCCUPYING, none of this splintered group in the movement crap.

I am hurt right now, I have been humiliated, threatened and ridiculed- not for 5 minutes, not for 20- but for nearly 4 1/2 hours. If the fact that I did not strike or lash out at anyone present is not proof of my intentions what is? If the fact that I can control myself when it's implied that I am an abuser, a rapist, a stalker is not proof that I believe very strongly in this cause then what is?

Brian mentioned last night that I have multiple arrests on my record, more than 5 for assault, so yes I have been known to be violent. But if you juxtapose that information with the information above then you see that an environment for violence was created, and that deliberately by people who knew beforehand that they were doing it, and that I chose not to engage or indulge in that violence. Not verbally, nor physically, did I label someone a rapist, a stalker, an abuser, things many who have gone to anger management classes would say could cause the aforementioned response.
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Re: Witness Statement

Postby heightspundit » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:55 pm

Nobody has said Derrian was violent in Occupy Cleveland. He is not violent in Occupy Cleveland. He means well and works hard for Occupy Cleveland..........but, I am told, sometimes he gets angry and a little loud, agitated.....so cool that down. He is not violent with us. Should not be banned. Has sometimes criticized in GA what he calls the "power circle" he says has too much power in Occupy Cleveland, so some of those "power circle" people may want him banned. Control the anger, loudness and tone of converation....that should help smooth this over. You can say we are ruled by a yuppy power circle if you wish. You have freedom of speech.
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Re: Witness Statement

Postby julia » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:23 pm

heightspundit wrote:Nobody has said Derrian was violent in Occupy Cleveland. He is not violent in Occupy Cleveland. He means well and works hard for Occupy Cleveland..........but, I am told, sometimes he gets angry and a little loud, agitated.....


Actually yes, the problem IS that he has been violent. Throwing anything (especially community property) such that it could easily have injured a bystander is violent. Breaking a window because you are upset and waving something around is violent. Threatening people is violent. Consistently asserting that his right to be loud, angry and interrupt and intimidate other people is more important than giving everyone in the group safe space to be heard... is also a kind of violence.

The really scary thing is, I actually believe Derrian believes that he said nothing at all to lash out or personally attack anyone. The fact that he is this totally unaware of his behavior is actually the biggest indicator that this isn't a situation that he's capable of resolving personally.

I don't doubt that he means well and works hard. I do doubt that he is willing and able to control himself, since he's been given ample opportunity to change his behavior and consistently replied (as he did here) that really it's all about what other people are doing TO him. Does any of this really sound like someone who's committed to changing HIS behavior one bit?

That being said, I do want to say that I don't think it is useful or healthy to drag his criminal record out into this. I think that we can, and should, make these kinds of decisions based only on someone's behavior in the group.
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Re: Witness Statement

Postby BrianCummins » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:51 pm

julia wrote:
heightspundit wrote:Nobody has said Derrian was violent in Occupy Cleveland. He is not violent in Occupy Cleveland. He means well and works hard for Occupy Cleveland..........but, I am told, sometimes he gets angry and a little loud, agitated.....


...I do want to say that I don't think it is useful or healthy to drag his criminal record out into this. I think that we can, and should, make these kinds of decisions based only on someone's behavior in the group.


I strongly disagree. First and foremost Derrian's criminal record was looked up on public records via the internet only after multiple people indicated there were repeated problems with threatening behavior and after several people indicated they did not feel safe being around him. The record was first only shared with people that indicated the problem. Finally, after Derrian refused mediation and refused to leave the group, only then, was his record disclosed to a larger group of people involved in trying to deal with this threatening situation.

It is important to note that his actions reflect the multiple convictions that he has related to threatening and destructive behavior. To ignore these facts would be foolish at best and irresponsible at worst.

No one else that I know of in occupycleveland has demonstrated repeated behavior of this kind, and is still being allowed to remain associated with the group. It is indeed about the behavior, but one cannot or should not ignore the individuals actions and history for a propensity of violent and threatening behavior.

And, in terms of decisions - none have been made by the group to-date, and he has shown no accountability for his actions...a reflection of a repeated history of violent and threatening acts.
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Re: Witness Statement

Postby Juggler Ted » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:03 pm

I agree that Derrian's statement seems pathological in that it denies he has done wrong. I do not agree on perma-banning people but in this case I believe Derrian should take a break from the group and wait until those he has offended are willing to forgive him. I can't believe the group wouldn't agree on a strong condemnation of his actions and that means asking him to leave. Derrian should do the right thing and agree to leave the group in peace. (i have misgivings about banning people when there isn't a good way of keeping them away, but the attempt should be made if there is consensus for it.)
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Re: Witness Statement

Postby ktksteinmuller » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:32 am

Juggler Ted wrote:. I can't believe the group wouldn't agree on a strong condemnation of his actions and that means asking him to leave.


And yet...

There were A LOT of people at the GA on Monday. There were a couple of people who blocked EVERY proposal that was made, trying to deal with the situation. There were a lot of really reasonable solutions put forward, but it seemed certain people refused to agree with anything other then "Derrian stays with no consequences" which simply isn't reasonable.
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Re: Witness Statement

Postby amplus » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:05 am

Could I get a few people to list the facts of this case for me, with as little emotional overtones as possible?

The things I want the facts on are--

1) what happened with the vandalism?
2) what is this thing about throwing something?
3) are there any other relevant occurrences?


That would really help me. I feel it would be good for me to understand this better.

Thank you,

~am
Last edited by amplus on Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Witness Statement

Postby SomeGuyOnBridge » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:15 am

Do we really need another rehash? This thing has been going on for weeks and I'm having trouble understanding the need to explain the whole story yet again. It's been the subject of at least two entire General Assembly meetings and a two-and-a-half-hour talk circle.

It feels like someone just doesn't want to believe that Derrian has been repeatedly violent, that the violence is escalating, and that Derrian does not even bother to keep up the pretense of believing that his violence is a problem.
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Re: Witness Statement

Postby josephzitt » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:19 am

ktksteinmuller wrote:There were A LOT of people at the GA on Monday. There were a couple of people who blocked EVERY proposal that was made, trying to deal with the situation. There were a lot of really reasonable solutions put forward, but it seemed certain people refused to agree with anything other then "Derrian stays with no consequences" which simply isn't reasonable.


I can understand where a couple of people (though not at least one other) were coming from in doing this. I disagree with them, and I hope that they do not decide to remove themselves from the group along with him, but I can understand if they would choose to do so.
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Re: Witness Statement

Postby josephzitt » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:23 am

SomeGuyOnBridge wrote:It feels like someone just doesn't want to believe that Derrian has been repeatedly violent, that the violence is escalating, and that Derrian does not even bother to keep up the pretense of believing that his violence is a problem.


If you're referring to amplus's questions, I don't think that amplus had been around for the extensive discussions. But rather than going through it yet again in a public forum, it might be good if someone (with more complete information than I have) would email a private note to amplus about it.
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